Chem321:Discussion 7
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This discussion is based on discussing two questions, and it is set to take place on the wiki, over the next few days (until midnight on Thursday, 25th July). Be sure to watch both videos: Prof. Robert Ewy on growing willow, and Prof. Ken Visser on small wind turbines. Consider the question with two scenarios in mind - (a) where fracking has given the world a plentiful supply of $100/barrel oil (maintaining gasoline prices at around $4/gallon in the US) or (b) where use of fracking has been limited after an environmental disaster, and global oil demand has surged ahead of supply, so there is a price spike for gasoline and similar liquid fuels.
We will leave comments on the page below, in response to (and under) the questions posted or the related responses. Be sure to start your text with a *, and sign your responses with four tilde marks at the end. You should post one original response to each question, and then post one followup comment on another student's posting. I will respond to each.
Biofuels in the North Country
What the the possibilities for biofuel production in the North Country? Could willow or something similar provide a major cash crop for local farmers with marginal land? (Post answers below here)
- There are several possibilities for alternative and renewable energy development in St. Lawrence County. As we observed in the video by Dr. Ewy, willow is one particular alternative. Though it was also apparent that while some varieties of willow thrive, others are less adequate or prone to do well in colder climates or in marginal soil that has not been used exclusively or recently for agricultural development. Industrial hemp is another good alternative energy resource that easily proliferates in colder climates. It has been known to grow well even in Northern and Central Russia. Industrial hemp has been cultivated near the Northern Border of Agriculture (66° N, approx.): from Arkhangelsk the northern limit of hemp-cultivation was extended to Mezen, then reached Pechora River (Ust-Tsilma), to Tobolsk Province, Surgut (61° 17'N)(http://vir.nw.ru/hemp/hemp2.htm). Hemp is not only well suited to cold climates with low temperatures in Spring and short Summers, in fact farming just 6% of the continental U.S. acreage with biomass crops like industrial hemp would provide all of America's energy needs(http://www.hempcar.org/hempfacts.shtml#one).Haw7thorne (talk) 17:18, 24 July 2013 (EDT)
- Fuels obtained from plants are a very viable source of energy for the North Country. It is rich in areas that have the ability to produce agriculture. The only issue is that many plants can not survive through the harsh winters that we experience in the North Country. Willow however is an exceptional plant that is able to thrive even in the cold temperatures. These plants are able to grow on marginal lands that typically can't be used for much else. This will help with farmers who can't sacrifice growing other crops that typically sell well to grow the willow. They can plant the willow on unused land and it will still be able to grow well. It is also ideal because it requires little input of resources and upkeep. After cutting down for harvesting one season it will grow back again without needing to replant seeds. (Magenta (talk) 12:05, 25 July 2013 (EDT))
- If the growth of willow or plants of the like, is successful in northern NYS, then contributing biomass fuels to replace some of the natural gas fuels would certainly be helpful. Like in the video, this growth can be optimized. And if willow is as easy to grow as Dr. Ewy makes it seem - then it would not be too hard for farmers to plant and leave these plants on open patches of dirt for the sake of an extra penny. For this to be successful, the cost of raising and processing the plants would have to remain below the cost of removing natural gas from the ground through techniques such as hydraulic fracking. Considering the known dangers and downsides of fracking, such as the downstream effects of pumping chemicals into the ground (reaching drinking water) in ~half a million wells across the states - the successful growth of the biofuel industry would certainly be a welcome change. http://www.dangersoffracking.com/ Tom.fuchs (talk) 13:49, 25 July 2013 (EDT)
- Biofuel is a new and innovative technology being introduced into the United States. Recently we have seen corn as a source of fuel, and even willow as Dr. Ewy's video shows. Unfortunately based upon the short growing period in the North Country, the window to grow biofuels is limited. Winters here are harsh and most crops die off once the temperature drops. The idea of growing biofuels is great for the North Country, because it would provide many jobs for the area, but I do not think it will be sustainable. If we are really trying to introduce this, then we should start with small farms of willow or corn (preferably corn, because of its fast growing ability), and see if the output is successful. If it does prove to be successful in production of biofuel, then the North Country would have cash crops all over, and in doing so, the local economy would flourish. As of right now though, I do not see there being a big effort put into the growth of biofuels in the area, and it will not be until the fossil fuels have been depleted and gasoline reaches an unbearable rate. Angela.M.Caracci (talk) 15:51, 25 July 2013 (EDT)
* Angela, I too do not think biofuels will be produced anytime soon in the North Country. For some reason they are always the last place to update on current times. The north country is also not a very wealthy part of New York so for someone to come up with the kind of money it takes to start a farm for biofuels would be very unlikely at this time. It would be nice to see something like that soon though! AbbyL (talk) 17:44, 25 July 2013 (EDT)
- Biofuel would be a great source of energy and income in the North Country. There are many many acres of land that could be used for production of bbiofuels. There are also many farmers that could benefit quite a bit by growing such plants. The downfall is though, that the North Country has the most unexpected climates in New York. Take the past couple days for example (July 24-25, 2013) it was 48 degrees in the middle of July in Franklin County NY. This would not be suitable for some plants. Also there is substantial rainfall in some seasons and extremlely early and late frosts that could cause many of the plants to not thrive. Like said above, bringing biofuel farms could result in a significant rise in employment. I have been doing a lot of research on biodiesel from used cooking oil to quench my curiosity on the subject and it is actually a pretty neat source of biofuel. Biodeisel of course can only be used in Diesel engines, but the process is not too extensive and the amount of used cooking oil from resturaunts is tremendous. Selling used cooking oil can benefit family run resturaunts in small towns of the north country. Biofuels could also benefit the North Country because of the several plants we have such as Alcoa, Bombardier,Moldrite, etc. These plants do a lot of shipping using large trucks that need copious amounts of fuel. Having biofuel farms close by could reduce the amount of fossil fuels used and possibly provide cheaper fuel in general because there wouldn't be the cost of having biofuels imported to the area from other locations. Using the biofuel would also reduce emissions and help to preserve the environment. AbbyL (talk) 17:38, 25 July 2013 (EDT)
Small wind turbines in the North Country
Suggest some suitable applications for small wind turbines in St. Lawrence County and nearby counties. (Post answers below here)
- I think that the most suitable usage for small wind turbines would likely include either private use or use by public entities such as colleges, universities, or publicly owned utilities in order to supplement local power supplies. However, private use would naturally only be viable if the individual(s) in question were able to afford the cost for purchasing and installing a small wind turbine, and its use even on a small scale would of course be limited. For instance, the small three blade turbine shown in the video and which is being tested by Clarkson University generated only 1kw per hour I believe. A smaller privately owned turbine like the one I am describing would be great however for powering a heat pump in order to heat say a small house.Haw7thorne (talk) 18:43, 24 July 2013 (EDT)
- Small wind turbines seem to be a very viable source of energy for local St. Lawrence communities. This area has a very reliable source of wind since it is on the water and has lots of open fields. These turbines could be implemented into local farms as they showed on top of silos. Farmers would have to pay the initial cost but it would result in a lot of their energy costs being paid for in this way. There are so many farms in this area that this could really cut the costs of energy in the County. Also putting the turbines along the river in areas close to communities can supplement some of the energy to these areas as well. (Magenta (talk) 12:12, 25 July 2013 (EDT))
- I tried to do some math. I apologize if I'm wrong. The small wind turbines were reported to produce about 1 kilowatt. This suggests that it could yield 86,400KJ in a day. If the average home uses about 29 kilowatt hours in a day, then the average home would require ~104,000 kilojoules in a day. If my math is correct, which it likely isn't, then one of these wind-turbines could effectively provide the majority of the energy needs of a home on any given day, so long as the wind keeps up. With this in mind, then a wind-turbine could even help a home cover their needs. However, Professor Visser also suggested that the cost of one of these turbines and poles could be close to $5,000. This is not a small investment and is not necessarily feasible for the average home. Though the wind-turbine may pay for itself in the long-term, it is hard to imagine the average Joe investing in one of these small turbines. If the new small turbine designs are more efficient both in cost and energy production, then perhaps this sort of limitation could change. I'm sure though - the saving in EXTERNALITIES as worth keeping in mind. If only the government had infinite money and could subsidize the purchasing of these small wind turbines for small businesses and homes. Tom.fuchs (talk) 14:26, 25 July 2013 (EDT)
- After looking into small wind turbines, I have learned that they can range from about 30 to 40 feet tall, and have the capacity to produce about 100 kilowatts of energy. These can be used in both private and public settings. For home settings, it takes about 10 kilowatts a day to meet the electrical needs (this is without the use of air conditioning during those hot summer months). Given that the North Country area produces a substantial amount of wind, these needs could be easily met. Currently there are some wind farms in Northern New York. I pass by one on my way to Plattsburgh. The Maple Ridge Farm's wind turbines supply enough energy to power about 90,000 homes. This benefits the people because it will lower property taxes, as well as, provide more revenue. Not only could they be used in private homes but also on farm lands and businesses as an adjunct to the usage of fossil fuels, in hopes to lessen the amount used.Angela.M.Caracci (talk) 16:00, 25 July 2013 (EDT)
